Does anyone know how to do the following in a single event? Basically I'm trying to turn on the office lights when it is off for more than 5 mins and detects motion and turn of when there's no motion for 30 minutes.
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This can't be done with one event. You can have a whole world of triggers and conditions but all together they can only perform one action or set of actions. What you're looking for is "Else" functionality, which HS3 doesn't have. I agree that it would be great and would greatly reduce the amount of events needed but it's just not in the cards right now.Originally posted by rpradeThere is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause
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Originally posted by S-F View PostThis can't be done with one event. You can have a whole world of triggers and conditions but all together they can only perform one action or set of actions. What you're looking for is "Else" functionality, which HS3 doesn't have. I agree that it would be great and would greatly reduce the amount of events needed but it's just not in the cards right now.sigpic
A founder member of "The HA Pioneer Group" otherwise known as the "Old farts club!"
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Originally posted by Gogs View PostJust got into HS3, do not like it, but it sounds like HS3 lacks a hell of a lot which HS2 spoiled us with.
Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions. Mine personally is that the event creation engine in HS3 is vastly superior to that of HS2. It has a bit of a learning curve because it is so flexible, but once you wrap your head around how it works things are pretty straightforward. HS2 also didn't have the "Else" functionality as I recall. Coming from Vera and HS2 I feel spoiled by HS3!Originally posted by rpradeThere is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause
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Originally posted by S-F View PostOf course we are all entitled to our own opinions. Mine personally is that the event creation engine in HS3 is vastly superior to that of HS2. It has a bit of a learning curve because it is so flexible, but once you wrap your head around how it works things are pretty straightforward. HS2 also didn't have the "Else" functionality as I recall. Coming from Vera and HS2 I feel spoiled by HS3!
HS2 stuck pretty much to the conventions of HS1 so that was not difficult. HS3, as I see it so far, has gone off on a completely different direction, and all has to be learnt again especially with scripts.
BTW, HS2 does support the "else" statement, I use it a lot in scripts and events in HS2.sigpic
A founder member of "The HA Pioneer Group" otherwise known as the "Old farts club!"
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Originally posted by Sireone View PostDoes anyone know how to do the following in a single event? Basically I'm trying to turn on the office lights when it is off for more than 5 mins and detects motion and turn of when there's no motion for 30 minutes.
I have also read many times how much more "elegant" it is to get everything contained within a single event or to move to a script when the event logic gets too tortured. To me the elegance is in the function. What you have done with your two events functions exactly the way you describe your needs, each with unique triggers, conditions and actions.
I have a handful of events that have 8 or more stacked IF/OR IF sections with a resultant single action or group of actions. They work perfectly, are very easy to read the "flow" of the event and are not difficult to build.
Keep an eye on the Event Clinic forum, after we get the foundation laid of the fundamentals we will start building and dissecting events. You will find that HS3 has a very powerful and flexible event engine, once you get a clear understanding of how it evaluates triggers and conditions.HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.0 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon
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Originally posted by rprade View PostThe question I ask is one I have asked many times before, why the desire to consolidate the actions of several events into a single event?
The reason is that it's intuitive to set up and a lot less work if one could set up events like a flow chart. It's just time consuming to have to make a bunch of similar yet slightly different events and they get difficult to keep track of. It's not that much of an issue. Setting up events does take a very long time. Years really. And it develops organically at a slow and steady pace. Another thing that I think would help is to have groups within groups. For example my group for livingroom Kinect events is ridiculously large. It would be great to have sub sections for things like lighting and climate control.Originally posted by rpradeThere is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause
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Originally posted by S-F View PostThis can't be done with one event. You can have a whole world of triggers and conditions but all together they can only perform one action or set of actions. What you're looking for is "Else" functionality, which HS3 doesn't have. I agree that it would be great and would greatly reduce the amount of events needed but it's just not in the cards right now.
Other than a single trigger and action such as:
IF there is motion
THEN Set the light to ON
ELSE Set the light to OFF
I'll give you the same challenge - describe a compound event with a trigger and condition(s), where ELSE would work. Maybe you can find one. I would love to have an example that could be used in the Event Clinic forum.HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.0 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon
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Well, I think most people resolve ELSE conditions by using scripts. A perfect example is using morning weather notifications. Below is a sample event using weatherXML to speak the rain chances in the morning. Since there is no ELSE option, we can only have one action (or create another Event).
It would be nice to have the event speak the condition if it's going to be Sunny and no chances of rain. Something like this.
IF Time is Sunrise
AND IF Rain Today in Sunrise, FL is above 80
THEN Speak Looks like it's gonna rain today
ELSE IF Rain Today in Sunrise, FL is below 30
THEN Speak Beautiful day today, enjoy!
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Originally posted by Sireone View PostWell, I think most people resolve ELSE conditions by using scripts. A perfect example is using morning weather notifications. Below is a sample event using weatherXML to speak the rain chances in the morning. Since there is no ELSE option, we can only have one action (or create another Event).
It would be nice to have the event speak the condition if it's going to be Sunny and no chances of rain. Something like this.
IF Time is Sunrise
AND IF Rain Today in Sunrise, FL is above 80
THEN Speak Looks like it's gonna rain today
ELSE IF Rain Today in Sunrise, FL is below 30
THEN Speak Beautiful day today, enjoy!
And not to be pedantic, but why is what you describe better than
Event 1 (Rain forecast)
IF Time is Sunrise
AND IF Rain Today in Sunrise, FL is above 80
THEN Speak Looks like it's gonna rain today
Event 2 (Rain NOT forecast)
IF Time is Sunrise
AND IF Rain Today in Sunrise, FL is below 30
THEN Speak Beautiful day today, enjoy!
I guess I don't understand the aversion to multiple events.HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.0 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon
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@Sireone:
That doesn't really add any functionality that isn't already available though. Sure, it allows you to combine multiple events into one event, but other than slightly better appearance it doesn't provide anything that can't already be done.
If that was all there was to it I would say that it would still be a good option to have, but I think there are some cons that have to be considered...
1) Internally, the "else" and "else if" statements would still have to be considered separate events since they would have different trigger criteria from the initial if statement. This adds complexity to the system/code and adding complexity with little or no value often makes for unreliable software.
2) A lot of users (especially those that are not experienced with programming) would almost certainly create some really bad logic with that functionality. For example...
IF SomeLight Changes to On
THEN Set AnotherLight to On
ELSE Set AnotherLight to Off
The else part of this statement would run any time SomeLight didn't change to on, which would be nearly all the time. It would also be impossible to control AnotherLight independently.
I'm not saying that "Else If" shouldn't be considered, but I can also see how it could be more trouble than it's worth. Especially since it is really just another way of organizing the event logic and UI display rather than adding to the capabilities of HomeSeer.
For what it's worth, I actually prefer to have two separate events for motion controlled lighting such as in your original post. It allows me to disable or limit the "motion/on" events while keeping the "no motion/off" event enabled. For example, when my home is in "Sleep" mode I don't want HomeSeer blasting me with bright lights if I make a trip to the kitchen for some water at 4AM. However, I still want the garage light to be turned off if I left it on before going to bed. So in my opinion, the events in your original post are already "optimized."
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Originally posted by S-F View PostThe reason is that it's intuitive to set up and a lot less work if one could set up events like a flow chart. It's just time consuming to have to make a bunch of similar yet slightly different events and they get difficult to keep track of. It's not that much of an issue. Setting up events does take a very long time. Years really. And it develops organically at a slow and steady pace. Another thing that I think would help is to have groups within groups.
Lighting GroupMotion Controlled lighting (with Group Conditions, active nightime, etc)HVAC GroupBedroom lighting controlsTime Controlled lighting (with Group Conditions)- Lights ON with Motion
- Lights OFF with Motion
- Cancel Motion Control
- Default dim level Daytime
- Default dim level Evening
- Default dim level Night
- Lights ON with Motion
- Lights OFF with Motion
- Cancel Motion Control
- Default dim level Daytime
- Default dim level Evening
- Default dim level Night
Front Porch Lighting Controls- Front Porch lights ON
- Front Porch Lights OFF
- Driveway lights ON
- Driveway Lights OFF
Etc.
For example my group for livingroom Kinect events is ridiculously large. It would be great to have sub sections for things like lighting and climate control.
Enhancement request in Bugzilla 2505, pile on if interested.Last edited by randy; January 1, 2015, 09:11 PM.HS4 Pro, 4.2.19.0 Windows 10 pro, Supermicro LP Xeon
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