How much Cat5 do you REALLY need?

[GatorEye]

I'm planning out my wiring strategy for the new house and I've read over and over how you can't pull enough cable and it's cheap and easy to do while you're building. I see recommendations of 4 cat5e to each wall of each room.

Well, the question is...what has everyone used that cable for? I can see cat5e for network, phone, and some people running one-wire temperature sensors. But beyond that what else are people actually doing with that much cable. If I ran 4 cat5e runs to each wall of each room in the house what would I actually do with it?

I'm looking at running a 2 Cat5e/ 2 RG6 bundle on two walls in the major rooms and probably 1 standalone Cat5e by the doors for touch screens (I assume I just need one for PoE).

Is it really practical to think I'll need much more?

[JohnBoy70_99]

I agree that you may not use a large amount of cable but what I found was the purpose of rooms sometimes changed for me and I ended up using a lot of cat5 in a few locations:

Example -
The spare bedroom became my home office after 4 years in the house, so I needed
1 - Cat5 for computer
1 - cat5 for phone
1 - cat5 for IR to mute TV when office phone rang
1 - cat5 for temperature sensor.

I ended up sharing phone, IR, and temp sensor on one cat5 but there was some crosstalk between the IR and phone (every time I answered the phone I heard a loud buzz as the IR signal passed down 2 conductors of the cat5)

So I would say at least where you expect there to be an office or an entertainment center definitely run the 4 cat5, and maybe only run 2 cat5 and 2rg6 to other locations, especially if you have the ability to pull more cables later. If you don't have the ability to pull cables to a location I would say the extra cables are definitely worth it.

[sdanks]

You could just have plastic conduit installed in the walls. If your builder would allow it, why not run your own pvc conduit in each wall and have it come through the top cap and extend up into the attic so you can get to it at a later date? You could even put in electrical boxes at the ends in the wall and put blank plates over them. That way if you ever want to run fiberoptic or whatever the newest technology is, you can just pull it in the conduit later.

I planned to use some of the wire to do photobeams inside and when the beam breaks AND it is after sunset, turn on path lights under the toe kicks in the bathroom etc. This would keep me from stubbing my toes in the middle of the night. . . who knows what you will find a use for later. Maybe another alarm keypad at that door you thought you would never go in and out of.

[zimmer62]

I ran only two cat5's to where my home theater equipment sits, and that was a huge mistake.

I ran two to almost every jack all over the basement when I remodeled it, and the one location I needed most I had to install a 5 port switch, which I'll need a 6th port tomorrow for the new receiver

I agree the conduit idea is the best, but you will want to make sure the conduit is big enough for long cable pulls etc. If you get too many cables in a conduit, you can damage them when pulling them through. (They also make a cable lube that's a good idea for longer runs)

[sdanks]

Yes. I forgot to say, that 3/4" conduit is not that much more expensive than 1/2", and you can get alot more cables into it. If you work at a big company, and go to the local electrical store, and tell them where you work, you will probably get a big discount. I did this, and I made sure they knew this was for me and not the business, but they said it was ok, and I could still get the discount since I worked there.

[Uncle Michael]

Originally Posted by GatorEye

I'm planning out my wiring strategy for the new house and I've read over and over how you can't pull enough cable and it's cheap and easy to do while you're building.

Well, the question is...what has everyone used that cable for? ... If I ran 4 cat5e runs to each wall of each room in the house what would I actually do with it?

Your intuition is correct. If you run lots of Cat5 cable you will end up using only a small fraction of it. The rest will just sit in the walls.

The reason that I and others recommend running much more than you will need is that we've all tried to predict what and where, and we've all been surprised to discover that the place we really, really, really wish we'd run cat5 was some place we didn't even consider. As others have noted, the way you use space will change over time, technology will change as well. Those of us who've tried to predict future needs are looking back and saying, "Man, was I wrong on that one!" The latest instance for me is a place where I'd like to put a video camera. A cat5 in the vicinity would make a POE IP camera ideal. Unfortunately, there is no cable anywhere near the desired camera position.

When I was remodeling, I ran 2 cat5 and 2 coax to many locations. If I had it to do over, I'd run mostly cat5 and very little coax. And, because it's much easier and less expensive to run cat5 than coax, I'd run bundles to more locations - 2 places on each wall in big rooms.

I've used cat5 for telephone, IR distribution and for connecting temperature probes, as well as Ethernet, of course. You can also use 2 cat5 cables for HDMI extension. Even if you plan to use a wireless LAN, you will find the extra bandwidth from a wired connection to be important some of the time. And when I discovered that I needed a WAP to improve coverage, having a cat5 available to tie in where I wanted it made adding it rather painless.

Conduit is a good idea, especially from basement to attic, but I would still recommend wiring as much as possible during construction. Cat5 is probably cheaper than conduit, and it's much easier to string wire than conduit. Also, pulling wires through conduit, especially cat5, is not as easy as it sounds. The bigger the conduit, the easier the pull - and the more difficult it is to run the conduit in the first place.

[buvens]

Think of it like electrical outlets. You never have as many as you need everywhere you need them and a lot of others go unused.
As others mentioned, over the years rooms usage changes and new technology comes out.

I have used Cat5 and coax for all kind of things that it wasn't installed for.

IE: the satellite feed coax's now carry video from the outside camera's, One prewired coax to the bedroom carries an ir signal to turn on the window AC. It was sure nice to already have it in the wall when the old X10 wouldn't turn on the new style AC.

I am probably way over kill with about 5000ft of cat5 and who knows how much coax, and yes, It always seems I need something else in another place.

Wireless is nice and I have a fair amount of that but if I really want something I know works, I go with hard wired. The one draw back could be rats or squirrels. Haven't had a problem here but at work we would occassionally have a problem with Token Ring or Ethernet cables getting chewed.

I like the conduit idea but make sure it is big enough. I used to use 1/2" then when to 3/4. Now if possible any I use is 2". I know over -kill but it is less stress on the cables you pull.

Good luck with your endevor and enjoy.

[Pete]

Is it really practical to think I'll need much more?

Post build I have added no less than 10000 feet of CAT5 in my current home.
Pre-build I historically installed about 6000 feet of Cat5 in another home and since have added more.

I helped a friend with wiring his new home about 10 years ago for networking, whole house audio, etc. In addition to CAT5 runs put in conduit for "future" proofing his home. To date he has never used any of the conduit installed and has never added any more to his base.

Most recently helped another friend "wire" his home. I've known him/family for over 20 years. He's been building his home now for 3 years and I believe that he most likely will never use over 20% of the cabling installed in his home.

Today in my home I have one "area" in which I have created "wire" runs from the basement to the attic. The area in question is larger than a 1" -2" conduit and only "feeds" the second story. A friend suggested that I use the HVAC returns for my cabling. I decided not to but to build a wire run instead. The run is between studs/floors. So it is approximately 16" wide by maybe 4-5" deep. In it it has cat5-6 cables, audio, video, etc. On the first floor there is a speaker in place which I use as an access panel to the basement. On the second floor there is another speaker I use as an access panel to the first floor access panel. In addition I added a third access panel in one of the bedrooms near the floor. I keep wire pull(s) in place from the basement to the attic. The most difficult part of the endeavor was making the access panel blend in with the rest of the bedroom. In the house previous to this one I had only one network connection to the attic which feed all of the bedrooms via a network switch. In this home each network connection goes to one central patch panel in the basement.

Personally if you believe (for whatever reason) you would want to hardwire everything everywhere for whatever reason then yes. Wire is cheap.

My home electrical was done to my liking. Each bedroom's 120VAC electrical outlets are split where as power is switched to the wall switch and continuous AC. Each bedroom's ceiling has two switched power leads again going to a switch for a ceiling fan and light (all populated at this time). Each bedroom closet light (walk-in and built into the wall) has a wall switch. The kitchen ceiling cans (8) as well as the front entrance hall chandelier, bedroom hallway lights, numerous other locations have 3-4 two way switches. The garage exterior front carriage lights have three 2-way switches along with the overhead lights in the garage.

Not home wiring but I just installed a new carpc in my car and yesterday decided along with the audio runs from the front to the back of the car I am adding two Cat5 runs. One for USB and one for network. This is in addition to using the BT/802.XX wireless connectivity to the carpc.

What is practical depends what you believe you will do or utilize in your new home. Congratulations on your new endeavor. Let us know how you proceed.

[danielbo]

I just moved into a new house and found it has a cat 5 line through out it. I has one end around the cicuit breaker box. I checked it and it is one soldline.
The question is can you tap into it with differant outlets, or will on line only allow one outlet. Its strange to me. Because when I had my last house buildt I had a line to each box to a switch for each one. Then moved into this house that was to be already setup for network when buildt. But as I said its only one line through house.
I just dont think it will work, but I asking and hoping someone will know.

Thanks for any help,
Danielbo

[Uncle Michael]

It would appear that something got lost in translation. Getting a real network-ready house will most likely require some more work. How much is the responsibility of the builder will probably depend on what you have in writing.

How do you gain access to the cat5 cable that is there? Does it intersect junction boxes at various places in the house?

[GatorEye]

Another thing I'm wrestling with is the location for the drops. For example if I run a pair of Cat5's down at outlet level to each wall, that isn't going to do me any good if I want to run a PoE camera (unless I want to monitor our feet or my dog). So then I need something high up in the corner, but that isn't going to help if I want a touchscreen over by the door.

It just starts to get to be too overwhelming, like I need one gigantic wall plate instead of drywall.

Are most people running PoE camera's or do I need to run power lines for cameras as well? I see this running well over a grand just in cable alone.

[jackpod]

run the cat5 to outlet level, you can always pull it back up for touchscreen hieght. When I built my addition (which was larger than the original house) I ran 7000 ft of cat5 and RG6. Since I have probably retrofitted another 7000 ft because of added systems or relocation (and not just cat5, electrical too) the best thing you can do is take detailed pictures and camcorder footage of all walls and ceiling joists prior to sheetrock, then if you need to run additional cable you can see where studs and such are located. Wire can be run anywhere when the house is finished if you can see what is behind the sheetrock. and don't just take pictures of the wire you ran. I took over 1000 photos of my 1650 sq ft addition and they have proved to be priceless more than once

[Uncle Michael]

I agree wholeheartedly with Jack. I took both pictures and video too. They've been extremely valuable.

As far as floor vs ceiling goes, I'd run the wire the whole distance from floor to ceiling. If you are coming from below, then run it up to the ceiling but leave some slack so you can fish it to any location in between. If you are coming from above, then you can just let it dangle. If you come across in the middle of the wall, loop it down to the floor, then up to the ceiling.

I can definitely sympathize with the IP camera problem. I've got several places I wish I had cat5, but don't. It's probably inevitable. Perfection is not a realistic goal. Dealing with the mistakes of your best-effort plan is far better than making no attempt at all to plan for the future.

[GatorEye]

Originally Posted by Uncle Michael

Perfection is not a realistic goal. Dealing with the mistakes of your best-effort plan is far better than making no attempt at all to plan for the future.

That might almost help me sleep better at night. I'll try to remember that. Thanks!

[Pete]

I guess I am spoiled in a way because I have an unfinished attic which I can walk around in and which provides me access to every room on the second floor. The same goes for my unfinished basement and learning that I can fish wires just about anywhere. I installed one POE camera under the eave of my second floor roof via the easily accessible attic. Prior to wiring my second floor I put lighting / electrical outlets and a floor of sorts in my attic to make it easier to work in. The most difficult runs (and better to do before the walls/insulation go up) are the ones on the outside walls. Many of mine are multiple purpose. The kitchen LCD has two cat5 cables, two rg6, one HDMI and one metal conduit (for 120VAC) run on an outside brick wall which goes into the basement BUT is over the cement footing which made it a bit difficult to run. I most likely wouldn't have run these cables while the house was being built because I wouldn't have foreseen the need at the time but on the other hand a very costly endeavor if you were to contract someone to do it for you today.

[danielbo]

My problem is that I was told the house was ready and the runs was behind the wall by the breaker box. I dont these people knew how to run a network. My other house, I ran everything before the walls went up so I knew it was right.
The new house all I can find it two drops and it seems to me they just ran one cat 5 line in a loop around the house. I was sure that this was not right, just wanted to make sure that I really couldnt connect multiple outlets on that loop.
Really the way I see it is making a break in the line in half and that way I could have only two cat 5 outlets.
I bought this house on a builders repo, so I dont believe he will come back and correct the mistake. Now all the walls and floors are sealed. I have been able to run some three new outlets myself, where it was easy to get to, but I need about three more that I have no idea on how to do it, other then breaking that loop to give me atleast two. I am pretty sure that is all I can do.
I am trying to put ip phones in each room. I am also using a IP converter that makes it so you can use a regular phone to finish the job. But it still is not as good as a real ip phone.
I am open for any ideas or feed back on a way or if you can hook more outlets onto the loop, but I bet I can not, just hoping.
Thanks guys and enjoy reading all the other stories,
Danielbo

[buvens]

Regular old phones use that type wiring, if you want them connected like that.
Or you might could use it for some kind of speakers or even fire sensors if you can get to it in different places

[Pete]

You can check if its one loop by shorting out two leads on side and using an ohm meter on the other end to see if the leads are shorted.

In FL when the contractor sent the "telephone" cabler I had a lengthy discussion with him regarding running separate cat5 connections from the individual rooms to the centralized location I had chosen for a com closet. He didn't understand the logic relating to the endeavor. He wanted to run one loop of cat5 room to room.
He actually was not familiar with the methodology.

[Uncle Michael]

Originally Posted by danielbo

I am open for any ideas or feed back on a way or if you can hook more outlets onto the loop, but I bet I can not, just hoping.
Thanks guys and enjoy reading all the other stories,
Danielbo

I have an idea to use network switches. In effect, you would be constructing a network in a piecemeal fashion.

Assuming there is enough slack to allow it, I envision installing a backless low voltage box wherever you want a network outlet. (Obviously, the cat5 wire has to pass by there.)

Pull a loop of the cat5 out through the box and cut it. Connect each end to an RJ45 jack in a cover plate and put the plate back over the box. If possible, keep track of which jack is 'downstream', that is, toward your router, and which one is 'upstream'. It's not strictly necessary, but could be useful later. You could use color coded jacks or just a left/right convention.

Next, install a network switch near the outlets and run two jumpers from the jacks to the switch. Now, you can plug in local devices to the remaining switch jacks and the switch will relay the network through the next leg of the cat 5.

I don't think there is a practical limit to the number of times you can repeat this. At least it is much greater than the number of switches you're going to want to buy!

Anyone else see a problem with such a scheme?

[Pete]

My old home was set up in the same manner basically with three switches on three floors.