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    Screened deck ceiling mounted Sonos Speakers

    Looking for suggestions.

    Adding a screened room to our deck, and want to put speakers in the ceiling. Initial source will be a Sonos amplifier, but of course, who knows what I'll use them for in future.

    The deck is 14 feet deep and 28 feet wide. I was planning on putting the speakers in the ceiling near the outside end of the deck. The deck area will be divided into two: one area will have a table with chairs around it for dining, the other area will have a sitting area with chairs, couches, and coffee table.

    My thought was to mount four speakers along the outside of the deck, two pair wired in parallel: left/right for sitting area left/right for dining area only a single source.

    Questions:
    Should I embed the speakers in the ceiling, or use speakers hanging from the ceiling with swivling bracket

    Is the approach to use two pair of left/right speakers better than just using two speakers that provide left/right spanned across the whole 28 feet.

    How do I determine guage of wire needed

    Any recommendations on speakers. Price is not the first concern, but it is a consideration


    Any input is appreciated,

    tenholde
    tenholde

    #2
    I have outdoor speakers planted on the gable of my house. They are the type on the swivel bracket.

    I recommend that you specifically get outdoor speakers. If they're in a covered porch it shouldn't really matter, but better safe than sorry. Unless you live in San Diego or some other place that has virtually 0% precipitation.

    I would use whatever gauge wire makes you happy. In the area where I live it's most common for whole house audio installer to use 16 Ga wire. I used 14 Ga and it's rather difficult to fit into the blocks on my Russound amp. My friends in the business had a chuckle at me for doing this...... After the fact, of course.

    I also recommend that you not mount them in the ceiling. Once you gut holes it's really hard to go back if you decide you want a different shape or size speaker.... or no speaker at all. Also its more difficult to wire. But that may not be a concern. I know it wouldn't be for me.

    I can't comment on your other questions about placement.
    Originally posted by rprade
    There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for your comments. I think you are correct about not using surface mount.

      I will have wire runs close to 200 ft., so I plan on using 12 awg. Overkill?

      tenholde

      Originally posted by S-F View Post
      I have outdoor speakers planted on the gable of my house. They are the type on the swivel bracket.

      I recommend that you specifically get outdoor speakers. If they're in a covered porch it shouldn't really matter, but better safe than sorry. Unless you live in San Diego or some other place that has virtually 0% precipitation.

      I would use whatever gauge wire makes you happy. In the area where I live it's most common for whole house audio installer to use 16 Ga wire. I used 14 Ga and it's rather difficult to fit into the blocks on my Russound amp. My friends in the business had a chuckle at me for doing this...... After the fact, of course.

      I also recommend that you not mount them in the ceiling. Once you gut holes it's really hard to go back if you decide you want a different shape or size speaker.... or no speaker at all. Also its more difficult to wire. But that may not be a concern. I know it wouldn't be for me.

      I can't comment on your other questions about placement.
      tenholde

      Comment


        #4
        At 200 feet, I would use 12 for sure. People in the business just use what works and they can make the most profit from, which will probably always be 16. That does not make it the best engineering design. If it will only be at elevator levels, then sure, go smaller, but I like to occasionally turn it up, and would want 12.

        Comment


          #5
          For the record, one of my outside speakers is 14 Ga and the other is 16 Ga. I ran out of a 1,000' spool of wire mid project and had to go to Radio Shack to get more. I detect no difference between the two and I have compared them one at a time back to back. No clue as to how things would be different if I had gone all 12 AWG. But 12 AWG seems nuts to me for speaker wire when compared to other applications.
          Originally posted by rprade
          There is no rhyme or reason to the anarchy a defective Z-Wave device can cause

          Comment


            #6
            Screened deck ceiling mounted Sonos Speakers

            Originally posted by S-F View Post
            For the record, one of my outside speakers is 14 Ga and the other is 16 Ga. I ran out of a 1,000' spool of wire mid project and had to go to Radio Shack to get more. I detect no difference between the two and I have compared them one at a time back to back. No clue as to how things would be different if I had gone all 12 AWG. But 12 AWG seems nuts to me for speaker wire when compared to other applications.

            Is your run 200 feet though? All that really matters for modern speaker wire is resistance over the path, which will vary a lot based on the gauge of wire and the ohm of the speakers used. Sadly, hearing the difference also becomes more and more difficult as we age and most people do not do an ABX or back to back test. For this reason, I prefer to just do the math and set some thresholds. The answer becomes very black and white about which size to use then. A few interesting articles:

            http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_wire
            http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

            Also, no wire will improve upon the quality of your source or amplifier, so distortions, lack of dynamic range, fidelity, and such (note I am only listing measurable things, not audio geek nonsense) in your signal on the wire may just make it all the more difficult to hear any difference. Again, for me it is easier to just do the math and pick the thresholds for voltage drop I am comfortable with.

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks for the reply. I used similar tables that would indicate that I probably should use something thicker than 12awg even, but budget also is a part of the calculation, so I settled on Monoprice 4038.

              tenholde

              Originally posted by Automated View Post
              Is your run 200 feet though? All that really matters for modern speaker wire is resistance over the path, which will vary a lot based on the gauge of wire and the ohm of the speakers used. Sadly, hearing the difference also becomes more and more difficult as we age and most people do not do an ABX or back to back test. For this reason, I prefer to just do the math and set some thresholds. The answer becomes very black and white about which size to use then. A few interesting articles:

              http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_wire
              http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

              Also, no wire will improve upon the quality of your source or amplifier, so distortions, lack of dynamic range, fidelity, and such (note I am only listing measurable things, not audio geek nonsense) in your signal on the wire may just make it all the more difficult to hear any difference. Again, for me it is easier to just do the math and pick the thresholds for voltage drop I am comfortable with.
              tenholde

              Comment


                #8
                If you are going the Sonos route why not use the ZP120 and save a ton of time and effort on the wiring?
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Rupp View Post
                  If you are going the Sonos route why not use the ZP120 and save a ton of time and effort on the wiring?
                  Rupp,
                  Exactly my plan. This is an outdoor deck without a good choice to place the ZP120 close to the speakers. In order to make the installation capable of being used later for non-sonos devices, I am running the speaker wires back to my equipment and AV cabinets and am placing the ZP120s there.

                  tenholde
                  tenholde

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by tenholde View Post
                    Rupp,
                    Exactly my plan. This is an outdoor deck without a good choice to place the ZP120 close to the speakers. In order to make the installation capable of being used later for non-sonos devices, I am running the speaker wires back to my equipment and AV cabinets and am placing the ZP120s there.

                    tenholde
                    Gotcha. Good plan.
                    I wish these ZP120's were quite so expensive as I would love to have 3 or 4 of these.

                    I have these and they sound real good. My screened in porch is small at only 12 X 12 but two of these can be heard across the back yard. As a matter of fact, the pest control guy called me last week as he was checking the Termite traps and my "house" told him that motion was detected in the back of the house and that my cameras were recording. He called to be sure nothing else was going to happen. Having outdoor speakers is a huge deterrent to anyone coming close to the back of the house.
                    Last edited by Rupp; November 22, 2014, 03:49 PM. Reason: Had to edit the post to remove a joke that I was being grilled over.
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                      #11
                      The speakers you recommend look perfect. I'll order them today.

                      tenholde
                      tenholde

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Tenholde, if you mount speakers at one end of the porch in each corner you'll get better stereo separation for all listening positions but people closer to one end will experience higher volume. Centrally mounting speakers in the ceiling will offer better 'constant volume'in the room but poorer stereo separation.

                        In ceiling speakers are less obtrusive but you probably have more choice of range and price with external ones.

                        Is it practical to mount 2 sonos Play:1 units and pair them? The audio quality is superb and all they need is power. This may be contrary to your whole house strategy though is Sonos is not already party of that strategy.
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by beerygaz View Post
                          Tenholde, if you mount speakers at one end of the porch in each corner you'll get better stereo separation for all listening positions but people closer to one end will experience higher volume. Centrally mounting speakers in the ceiling will offer better 'constant volume'in the room but poorer stereo separation.

                          In ceiling speakers are less obtrusive but you probably have more choice of range and price with external ones.

                          Is it practical to mount 2 sonos Play:1 units and pair them? The audio quality is superb and all they need is power. This may be contrary to your whole house strategy though is Sonos is not already party of that strategy.
                          I have Sonos throughout. Intending to add 4 speakers connected to 2 Sonos: Connect-Amps in my AV closet. Can therefore listen to single zone on deck, or the two zones paired.
                          tenholde

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Here one home pool lanai which is screened with one section under the roof installed in ceiling speakers using 16 gauge paired / jacketed wire. Put an outdoor in wall box (well in cement) for whatever using cat5e ~2000. I also installed a ceiling fan in the covered area.

                            The sound is good with just the two speakers facing down. Over the years now have replaced the ceiling fan and speakers once around 2007 mostly cuz any metal pieces had rusted (salt water is some 25 feet away). The ceiling is ~12 feet plus and servicing it is a PITA. (replacing fan and speakers). The appearance of the combination is more indoors looking than outdoors looking; if that makes any sense.

                            Up north installed two exterior mounted speakers on brick overlooking the deck. I do have them apart to the edges of the deck and the sound is good. (Russound). The are mounted high between 7-8 feet or so.These are not covered and exposed to the weather and sun. Its been a few years and I do not see any of the weathering effects (but no salty air here). The Russound speakers look a bit like the Polk speakers Rupp mentions. Most difficult pieces was the wiring into the brick and down to the basement where the Zoned amps sit.
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                              #15
                              You might consider using dual voice coil speakers. This is a speaker (single enclosure) that has both the left and right channels all in one unit. Speakercraft invented them years ago.

                              It sounds like your plan for left/right speakers will work since the listening positions are determined by the table and seating areas. If you are walking around, though, one side will be louder than the other so you might end up hearing more guitar and less of another instrument since certain instruments are recorded on each side. A dual voice coil speaker is a point source for both channels so you don't have that problem. Of course, you don't get any stereo sound with them.

                              I had left/right speakers on a very wide previous deck. Now I have multiple dual voice coil speakers and am much happier this way.

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