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    new to multizone audio and homeseer

    I am buildling my own house and am now at the low voltage stage which I am doing myself. I have a number of questions. I have read lots and lots and my brain hurts but I want to check a few things.

    my plan with respect to audio is to have a multizone multisource system. I expect to want to be able to play 5 to 6 sources at max at a time probably off a central server, and send to up to 11 or 12 different zones, most likely independent songs in upto 5 or 6 zones at any one time.

    My plan is to probably put a russo amp in the wiring closet and from there run 2 wire 14 gauge speaker wire to each of the speakers. I know I require the media server, and playback equipment as well and that will be connected to the amp.

    I will be using android equipped tablets with poe injectors at various locations around the house as well as I want to be able to use my android based phones, or portable tablets.

    If I do this will I be able to control volume, audio etc from any and all of the android based tablets to each zone independently (i.e. loud in one room, quiet in another). I do not want to put independent volume controls in addition to the wall mounted tablets. Does anything I mentioned pose any problems, or am I missing something. I have not specd out my speakers, amps, etc at this point. Right now I am more interested in making sure I have the proper wiring in place and I can spec out my materials later.

    I want to keep this as home brew as possible and do not want any commercial solutions that I cannot change. I will also be put in home automation, security, and cameras, and may want to read data from i/o sensor connected to a server or other computer.

    Please advise.

    Thanks and I apologize for the newbie questions but gotta start somewhere.

    #2
    I think what you are planning is doable. At present there are no plug-ins that handle the latest Russound equipment, so to have HS control the amp you'll need to have CAV or CAM. (There might be others, but I'm not sure.) It will also be helpful to have one UNOS2 keypad, but that can be located in your wiring closet.

    My standard advice is to run the speaker wire and Cat5e/6 past the location where you will mount - or someday might want - your audio control. You don't need to tap into it now, but having the wires available will greatly expand future options.

    I believe the BLRussound plug-in is the only one that will be updated to HS3, but you should confirm that. The good news is that it is very good and will allow you access to every control for every zone, so making those controls available on your tablet will be limited only by your patience and cleverness with HSTouch.
    Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
    HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

    HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

    Comment


      #3
      so are you saying that I should run the speaker cable from the speakers back to the possible tablet location, or are you saying in addition to the cable run from the central amp to the speaker, I should run speaker and Ethernet from the central room to the tablet location as well as full runs to the speakers.

      Thanks

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by winterforever View Post
        so are you saying that I should run the speaker cable from the speakers back to the possible tablet location, or are you saying in addition to the cable run from the central amp to the speaker, I should run speaker and Ethernet from the central room to the tablet location as well as full runs to the speakers.
        Sorry to be confusing. My suggestion is to run the wire you are planning to run to the speakers past a location where you intend to place your tablet, then on to the speakers. In most cases it will add about 10-15 feet to the total wire run. I definitely didn't mean to suggest a duplicate run of speaker wire! Including Cat wire just adds to the versatility. It could be the wire you intend to run to your tablet anyway, but if you run an extra one that will give you even more options later.
        Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
        HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

        HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

        Comment


          #5
          Remember one thing. Wire is cheep when you run it the first time. Leave plenty of slack in the wire closet. All CAT5/CAT6 should be shielded. Run extra wire for IR. Xantech makes excellent IR hardware.

          If the house is multi level, plan on a chase between the levels for future cabling.

          Photograph or use video to document where all wire is before the walls are closed up.

          Comment


            #6
            + what Ken posts relating to wiring

            I built a chase from the basement to the attic in my two story home and still adding LV wires when needed to the chase.

            All (except media room / family room) house wiring is home runned such that where it's home runned to I can patch between floors, rooms, hallways. Family room cabling though extends to comm room. A few years back though redid the entire room and went to a 7.1 speaker set up and terminated speaker cabling in wall inserts next to LCD/MM stuff. Even though I do not really watch TV did set up master bedroom (vaulted ceilings) with 5.1 speaker setups working from the attic down. Here all speaker wiring is 16 guage either single pair or two pair PVC jacketed white CM/CL2 Monoprice (purchased in spools of 500 feet). That said its also Monster cabling and really whatever I could get at a good price with 500-1000 foot spools. The Monster cable that was 16 guage was a bit of an issue with a very thin PVC jacket which made it a bit difficult to work with. On the other hand the Monoprice jacket was thicker but that in itself made for a thick 2 pair speaker wire; a bit heavy and more difficult to run through the chases.

            In Florida I put mudplates in during the build such that the drywall folks would cut around them running the cables to the mudplates. I did utilize the mudplates for the speaker wires. This is (was) very low on the WAF as I still have many blank covers on the mudplates in Florida; but do not really have to mess much with the drywall cutting or painting stuff.

            In a synopsis then I ran (new build) cabling and put in chases. Its been over 10 years now and I have not utilized all of the cables run and have added wires to the chases.


            None related to OP but related to using automation on the HV wiring....

            Relating to HV wiring / circuit breakers; during the redo of the family room I separated the electrical some to autonomous breakers for the multimedia stuff, wall outlets not used for MM and lighting. That said too I redid the wiring in the panel breaking down may circuits to little pieces with more breakers and documented such. I have conduit in the midwest and ran new wires to the panel for many circuits.

            Additionally installed a commercial (with a board for connecting HV monitoring / alarm et al stuff) surge suppressor adjacent to the fuse panel. (a bit too much for a house though).
            Last edited by Pete; May 27, 2013, 01:35 PM.
            - Pete

            Auto mator
            Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
            Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
            HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

            HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
            HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

            X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

            Comment


              #7
              How does a russound system compare to using Sonos to distribute audio?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by PosterBoy View Post
                How does a russound system compare to using Sonos to distribute audio?
                With regard to what?

                Russound requires wires to each location and installed speakers. Sonos is wireless and includes the speakers in the box, but you need a box for each location. Sonos units are more portable, Russound is built in.

                It's unlikely that anyone has done a head-to-head comparison on sound quality, but based on comments on the board, I think both are pretty capable systems.
                Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                Comment


                  #9
                  I guess I don't understand the appeal of a Russound system. Sonos units can be more portable, but I was referring to an equivalent built in system with Sonos connect amps wired to in wall speakers. Also wirelessly connecting Sonos amps is one possible solution, but its far better to wire in the amps. They have to be wired to the speakers anyway so might as well run Ethernet over to them. A big advantage to this is the Ethernet run is long (who cares) but the speaker wire run isn't. Long speaker wire runs are worse for a variety or reasons (This is a fun and highly informative read that puts some actual science behind speaker wire selection: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm )


                  My feeling is that a Sonos system wired this way is going to be cheaper than a Russound system, and more flexible. I did a bit of reading around the net and found that this was the general consensus: http://www.avsforum.com/t/831378/who...russound-sonos
                  (this is subjective on my part of course and goodness knows the whole audio world is extremely subjective). So I guess my question is what is the appeal of a Russound system? I could see where it might be better if you have a lot of analog sources at one central location. Other than that I am not sure I see it.
                  Last edited by PosterBoy; June 2, 2013, 03:53 PM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Personally comparing the two systems; Sonos and Russound is more of an Apples and Oranges type comparision.

                    Their hardware methodology of sound distribution is unique.

                    What is "built" into the Sonos system versus the Russound system are different.

                    I am not knocking the Sonos system here.

                    Audio sources and methodology of playing back audio with different software and control of said software is a whole different topic.

                    That said though I never really utilized Homeseer to control the playback of my media. (video or audio). That is me though.

                    Personally I have my Russound amps on a rack connected to a "patch panel" speaker connections and keypad controllers. I never look at it. My neighbor on the other hand put his on his multimedia shelf and wired all of the speaker zones to the back of his multimedia setup. His speakers / zones / cat5e cables just come out of an open hole behind his multimedia center and terminate at the back of the Russound zoned amp.

                    The above noted I am entertaining the Sonos system using one of these:

                    http://www.myrocontrol.com/myrobridge/

                    I can today manage the XMBC boxes and Squeezebox players remotely just fine; still though interested in the embedded firmware version of music management on the Sonos box.
                    Last edited by Pete; June 3, 2013, 03:39 PM.
                    - Pete

                    Auto mator
                    Homeseer 3 Pro - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e 64 bit Intel Haswell CPU 16Gb
                    Homeseer Zee2 (Lite) - 3.0.0.548 (Linux) - Ubuntu 18.04/W7e - CherryTrail x5-Z8350 BeeLink 4Gb BT3 Pro
                    HS4 Lite - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenovo Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram

                    HS4 Pro - V4.1.18.1 - Ubuntu 22.04 / Lenova Tiny M900 / 32Gb Ram
                    HSTouch on Intel tabletop tablets (Jogglers) - Asus AIO - Windows 11

                    X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and Wifi MQTT automation-Tasmota-Espurna. OmniPro 2, Russound zoned audio, Alexa, Cheaper RFID, W800 and Home Assistant

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by PosterBoy View Post
                      I guess I don't understand the appeal of a Russound system. . . .an equivalent built in system with Sonos connect amps wired to in wall speakers. . . .A big advantage to this is the Ethernet run is long (who cares) but the speaker wire run isn't. Long speaker wire runs are worse for a variety or reasons. . . My feeling is that a Sonos system wired this way is going to be cheaper than a Russound system, and more flexible.

                      So I guess my question is what is the appeal of a Russound system?
                      Thanks for the clarification. I suspect this is a BMW vs. Tesla kind of question. Each person needs to look at the alternatives and asses them in light of his own needs and preferences. I think you make a good case for a Sonos based system. In my case, Sonos was not readily available when I did my installation, so I didn't include it in my comparison.

                      In your scenario, the biggest advantage I see for Russound is that it is much easier to conceal the electronics. If that is not an important factor, then Russound may not have much appeal. As with most things in life, the key is to make a choice based on the best information available, then commit to make the choice work. Based on what I've read here on this board and my own experience, I think either Russound or Sonos work well, and if I were doing it today, I'd certainly give careful consideration to Sonos.
                      Mike____________________________________________________________ __________________
                      HS3 Pro Edition 3.0.0.548, NUC i3

                      HW: Stargate | NX8e | CAV6.6 | Squeezebox | PCS | WGL 800RF | RFXCOM | Vantage Pro | Green-Eye | Edgeport/8 | Way2Call | Ecobee3 | EtherRain | Ubiquiti

                      Comment


                        #12
                        just to throw another piece of hardware into the mix, you could also try using something like my setup. I ran homeruns back to the media closet to ever speaker. In the media closet i have 2 Speakercraft 12 channel amplifiers plugged into an Extron 1616 MAV Plus audio matrix. The MAV Plus supports IP control and has 16 inputs and 16 outputs. The best thing about the Extron is that it allows for volume control on the outputs so i can turn the amplifiers to where i want the MAX volume to be and then let the extron control the volume of each output. I know it seems like over kill to have 16 channels, but right now i have about 8 channels in use for random playlist that are basically just another instance of winamp on a computer with 8 USB sound cards. When i want to play a specific track, i just use the canned itunes plugin on homeseer through another sound card and another input on the extron. I am still working on a simple plugin for the Extron that would allow homeseer to control it, but for now im just sending RS232 commands to it.

                        So if you are looking for another option that allows for volume control and the use of standard amplifiers, this might be a solution for you as well.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Drabbies,

                          I have just bought a used MAV2412A, I would be greatful to hear how your switch is performing.

                          I am currently writing a script for control of the switch, I am going to do the following:-

                          Create devices with buttons for control, 1 device per input to control audio gain. 3 devices per output to control output volume, mute and input tie.

                          Automatically update status of above devices using received RS232 commands.

                          Control Audio input gain, Output volume, output mute and output to input ties.

                          I will also store the status of the switch in an ini file for possible restore/ revert to previous settings.

                          Unfortunately I wont be home to play with the switch for a few weeks so I won't be able to share anything until I test it.

                          I would be interested in hearing about your usb soundcard setup, is it reliable? can you recommend any hardware?

                          I have 24 inputs to use so I need some ideas.

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