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    Camera Discussion

    Moved from above posts....

    I am liking the domes lately; but also see use for bullet cams. Yup and the bullet cams all have a sun shield on them. They do still get hit with direct sunlight and I haven't seen an issue to date though with one mounted under an eave which gets the afternoon sun. (a bit over a year now). My preference is small. The front bullet cam did attract birds this year along with the bird splatter. I never cleaned the lens ane over time it cleared itself.

    The Optex cams just utilize a tinted plastic lens over the camera lens. These have not deteriorated in 10 years or so of use in direct sunlight. They were designed to be very discreet and that is probably why the same said design is no longer utilized.

    I do test leaving the latest ones (domes) in direct sunlight. The auto shutters do an OK job. That said historically my issues related to deterioration of any sub standard plastic inside of the dome. I do have a couple of IP HD cams that "flicker" when changing over from color to black and white at night. Its just a software adjustment on the light sensor. I leave the shutter speed to automatic even though I can manually adjust the shutter speed.
    - Pete

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    #2
    Moved here from the prior thread: http://board.homeseer.com/showthread...=129195&page=5

    -----------------

    Thanks for pointing out WDR as a factor worth considering. Which type of WDR do you like? I notice that acti, for instance, offers 4 different kinds of it.

    I stumbled across a helpful website that does fairly in-depth reviews on the various cams: http://www.networkcameracritic.com/. I found its review of the dahua mini dome to be useful, but I learned a lot more of the more valuable, hard-to-come-by information from all the comments that followed it.

    The site runs different cams through similar test scenarios and posts the image captures, so it makes comparing them easier. Unfortunately, he posts the videos to youtube, rather than posting them in native format, so comparing video capture is problematic.

    I also found www.cam-it.org and www.cctvforum.com . They're helpful as a crosscheck against the bias in networkcameracritic.

    I'm new to all this. If there are similar or better review websites, please post a link.

    ---------------

    Arghhh.. I was just about to order the Hikvision turret (above) when I realized the camera will probably get hit by some strong sunlight after sunrise for an hour or two, especially during the summer. Is it enough to simply make sure the sun is not in the camera's field of view, or will I need to block direct sunlight from passing through the lens altogether? I notice many of the bullet cams have what looks like a moveable shield on top, and I'm just now realizing that maybe it's there to act as a visor and block sunlight in a scenario like this one?



    I suppose a camera that's recessed far enough behind the eaves (almost like a slotted light fixture) would also work, but I haven't seen anything like that for sale.

    ---------------

    Also, thanks for the pointer regarding Hikvision. I may go for the 2.8mm version of their new turret cam: http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=2135. According to the review, it can record 3mp as 20fps, and to your point, it has a flavor of WDR which they call DWDR (although I'm guessing its just rudimentary). I didn't see any useful info describing its DWDR in the manual or the datasheet. Anyhow, the 1440p sample video posted on youtube looks reasonably good on the face of it.



    It has a bigger profile than the dahua (nearly 4" tall and 5 inches in diameter), but it's mostly white, so it may be a wash as to which blends in better. Hard to say.

    -----------------


    Below is what I clipped from the Hikvision manual.

    65C = 149F. As a point of comparison, I'm reasonably sure darker colored asphalt roof shingles can get to 150F. So, it helps that most of the camera body is white.

    The tricky issue is how much focusing of light the lenses are doing. My impression is not much: The CCD is 1/3". A typical security camera lens is about what diameter? 2/3"? So, ~4x concentration of light if it were aimed directly at the sun (which I'll make sure it isn't), and so <~4x concentration for captured light that doesn't hit the sensor. So, maybe part of the lens barrel gets a little hotter in a spot. Doesn't seem like it would be necessarily a huge issue for the camera as whole. Pushing the lens a bit deeper into the tube would help avoid the issue entirely by maybe trading off some FOV. This might be the easiest way to handle it, assuming lens tubes like that are easily found.

    More homebrew would be to have a visor that's not attached to the camera (so no thermal bridging). e.g. build a minimal box around it that still allows for ventilation.

    Short of that, having an actual shutter would be nice (I don't think it has one), or a motor to pan the camera away (it doesn't have that either).

    Or, just punt and use a bullet cam with a shield for looking in that direction. Not a great option in my case (HOA, as mentioned earlier).

    Surely, this must be a fairly common issue?
    Attached Files
    Last edited by NeverDie; February 5, 2014, 08:38 AM.

    Comment


      #3
      Here I have bits and pieces of IP HD cameras on my workbench. All of the IP camera boards have electronic mechanical shutters stuck to the side of the lens. I have two types but do not know the difference other than the description and the build is a bit different.

      Very delicate stuff as I broke the first one I played with.

      I've settled mostly on the 3.6mm lens and like the 2.8mm lens and trying a sort of fish eye 180 lens on an HD IP camera. Many of the newer IP HD cams also have zoom lens which are still optical and mechanical but controlled by the web gui interface. Optical zoom is much nicer than digital zoom. Many cams have booth built in these days.

      The first outdoor with LED lighting IP HD camera I played with got so hot it melted snow and dryed the lens when it got wet. It had 4 cree style LEDs on it.

      You can see what happens with sunlight or light in general on the streaming picture. It is delayed a bit from the caching going on. I made up a long cable and play on the deck patio table sometimes with them. Much easier than after mounting the camera in a high location.

      Very difficult to fine focus these cameras. The ones I have have an analog output for focus; still difficult to do outside. I use my cell phone or tiny Android tablet to move the camera. I tried to use the LCD TV to focus a camera inside once. Its a PITA still to do. Easiest just to use the laptop in the shade or in the house.

      Easiest to just get one and real life test the camera in your outdoor environment. Many are so new that no one has yet tested them for long periods of time outside.

      I have the ball in socket and the dome styles. The old ball in socket cams used to rust outdoor (analog). The new IP HD one has been outdoors now since the summer and I haven't really looked at it. It is a mixture of plastic and metal. The ball piece is completed sealed with just the cables coming out of it in the back. The cable goes through a little rubber like cover with an opening just for the wire. The camera lens is insulated from the weather.
      Last edited by Pete; February 3, 2014, 01:56 PM.
      - Pete

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      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Pete View Post
        I have two types but do not know the difference other than the description and the build is a bit different.
        Not sure what you have, but maybe there's an IR filter that gets mechanically inserted before going into color mode? You could easily test that conjecture with an IR remote. I'm only guessing, but if heat is the enemy, then maybe inserting an IR filter before the light becomes focused is all that would be needed to prevent damage. Not sure the Hikvision has one or whether, even if it did, it is designed to deploy that sort of "inner-eyelid" for that purpose. If it's there at all, I'm guessing it's mostly there to help get better color during daytime, and maybe it's removed at night to get better B&W detection.

        I wouldn't be surprised if extremely expensive, high-end cameras had methods to protect themselves against sunlight or user error because the high value would make it worth protecting. Less obvious is how to achieve that after-the-fact on a lower-end camera in an easy and straightforward way. Maybe there's something like LCD, but that just blocks IR (rather than visible light) when it's energized? That would be an electronic, non-mechanical shutter like what exists on electronic 3-D glasses.
        Last edited by NeverDie; February 3, 2014, 03:03 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Yup it was a very thin glass clear filter. It was located in / on the lens housing right above the CMOS. The build was very much like the Speco Dome lens assembly which also had an electromechanical filter. You can also hear the snap of a shutter in quiet room just covering the lens with the lens cam. I broke it by adjusting / focusing the lens turning it in the barrel until it hit the filter.

          Here is a picture of a Mega Pixel 3mm - 8mm Vari Focal Auto Iris Lens. (similar to the Speco Dome camera lens). One tab is for the zoom and the other is for focusing the camera lens.
          Attached Files
          - Pete

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          Comment


            #6
            Wouldn't be hard to rig any number of solutions that would solve the problem on a workbench, but deploying it while not having it look awful may be harder, unless the reworked contraption is hidden inside a box.... If set back from the box opening, a box may provide all the shielding that's needed... and it's simple: just a box with a hole cut into it--similar to a birdhouse.

            Well, I guess unless someone has suggestions, that's Plan B.

            Better yet, maybe I should just buy a smarter camera with an IRIS?
            Last edited by NeverDie; February 3, 2014, 03:29 PM.

            Comment


              #7
              Yup; this is where you want to an off the shelf camera; its plug n play.

              I like to tinker and take things apart.The analog stuff was always "off the shelf". I then went to upgrading stuff with better analog boards and lenses. The old legacy analog boards were very modular. 3 wires; video, 12+ and 12-. Just tiny wires. The shutter stuff was wired right to the board.

              Today its tiny stuff and miniature boards. The update to the Speco dome happened because the combo IP HD board and Camera lens board were very similiar in size to the removed Speco boards. I say it was plug n play to swap the boards; but it really wasn't because I had to remove and set some maybe 20 little screws the size of a pen tip using a jewelers screwdriver. Once all assembled with the shielding and other stuff you can't really tell what is under the dome cover. Looks just like the Speco legacy analog lens; except that its IP HD. Many of the boards are the same size and use the same pins MFG to MFG. I did have to adjust the lense assembly such that it went up to the dome part and not too far into the brackets. A 28mm lens set inside will show the edges of the bracket. I updated the Aircam lens to a 28mm lens. When I did this you could see the sun shield on the top part of the video such that I had to slide it back a few mm.
              - Pete

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              Comment


                #8
                Good info. Thanks.

                Below is an IR-cutoff filter that's electrically activated (no moving parts). It's at the bottom of the lens stack, so maybe it's what you accidently screwed into. It's relatively inexpensive--this one's listed at $4.89 on ebay from China. If there's any day-night IR-cutoff on a lower-end camera, I'm guessing it would be something like this.

                Interesting that there are kits now for building your own security camera--a bit like building your own computer from the basic parts. You pick either an imager board or a board camera that you like, and then build up from there. Sounds like you've already been doing something similar.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yup; shattered it. Never really looked for another one. Just returned the camera as it was new.

                  I purchased the lens board with a zif connector to the IP board. The IP board had one cable for the NIC, one mic, one speaker, one USB, IR LED power; so forth and so on. The two boards are stacked and have a smaller footprint than the original lens board on the Speco.

                  Next endeavor here is to retrofit the Optex analog camera boards with IP HD boards.

                  Really though you just need to be patient with this stuff and take your time.

                  The payback is having done the DIY and learning a bit about how these new cameras are put together.

                  Personally here have always played some with photography. (starting in the 60's).

                  I did also take physics a long time ago and that led to playing with lasers as a hobby in the 1980's. Being really carefull you can see the physics of light using lasers.

                  Its up to you how much you want to play. Don't make assumptions until you read and experiment yourself.

                  Most folks just purchase IP cameras and just start using them. IE: Purchase a Foscam here or wherever. Put it on-line and play. I am not promoting Foscam; rather just suggesting this will be the best way for you to learn. Once you have one; take it apart; you can connect a serial port to it and watch how the OS works if you want or just use it as it is.

                  That said have a read here about the basics of optics and photography and think about the digital pieces.

                  1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optics

                  2 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography

                  3 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-circuit_television

                  4 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_camera

                  5 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_video_recorders

                  6 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_camera
                  Last edited by Pete; February 4, 2014, 09:42 AM.
                  - Pete

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                    #10
                    I just ordered the Chinese version of the above 2.8mm Hikvision camera for $170. Supposedly the firmware can be updated to run English. We'll see. If it meets expectation, I'll order a second one of the same.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yup on the little Grandstream IP HD camera boards the language drop down configuration is present on the main web gui page.

                      You don't have to log into the camera board to change the language.

                      I am guessing that Hikvision has done similiar maybe with their web gui?

                      Googling found this:

                      As for the language used by the rest of the camera, that is you choice regardless of version as its configurable to about 20 different languages, personally I prefer French, too bad I don’t speak French but if I see it enough, I will learn it through osmosis.
                      From here with a very good review of the Hikvision DS-2CD2032 camera here:

                      http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=1791
                      Attached Files
                      - Pete

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                        #12
                        I ordered the turret instead of the bullet cam. It can record 3mp at 20fps, or 1080 resolution at 30fps. Here's the review: http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=2135
                        Comparing the video quality to most other cameras (even ones at double the price), the reviewer's video clips are what sold me.

                        Unfortunately, changing languages is trickier than your grandstream. Hikvision burned the China country code into ROM, apparently to discourage product flowback from China. However, there's a hack to circumvent that and do it anyway. Aside from the country code that's burned into ROM, the rest of the camera is allegedly identical to the US version.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Very nice!

                          Many folks here on the Homeseer forum will want to hear about it.

                          A "how to" here reviewing your new Hikvision DS-2CD3332-I and updating and using it with Homeseer would be a neato thing.

                          http://board.homeseer.com/forumdisplay.php?f=824

                          There is also a new camera database on the CT forum for similiar automation projects here.

                          http://cocoontech.com/forums/page/cctv-cameras

                          Tear it apart; tell us what you like or do not like about the camera.

                          IE:

                          Unfortunately, changing languages is trickier than your grandstream. Hikvision burned the China country code into ROM, apparently to discourage product flowback from China. However, there's a hack to circumvent that and do it anyway. Aside from the country code that's burned into ROM, the rest of the camera is allegedly identical to the US version.
                          Here testing this one outside. It has a Grandstream OS. I do have one issue so far with it. The auto night mode on it doesn't always work and the IR LEDs do not illuminate. That said I am blaming it on the cold; but the cold shouldn't be affecting it. That and the IR illumination is good for some 30 feet in front of the cam which isn't getting to my deck from the back yard right now. I am abusing it. It is in direct weather and sun under a pine tree.

                          - Pete

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                            #14
                            Yo Pete...

                            I am trying to get video from my axis into my droid.

                            made a window for video
                            pulled up video in Chrome
                            pasted below into designer

                            all I get is a red X

                            can you guide me in the right direction

                            http://192.168.1.144/view/viewer_index.shtml?id=81
                            Ubuntu on the Intel NUC ( 8i5BEK ), 32 G, 250G SSD, V4 Pro 😎

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I always look here for the stuff about different cameras:

                              http://www.zoneminder.com/wiki/index.php/Axis

                              and here:

                              http://www.ispyconnect.com/man.aspx?n=Axis

                              Check out your model camera and do a single jpg snapshot. Put this in HSTouch, make it video as fast as it will update. You will just get quickie almost motion stills. Works for me in this manner. I utilize VLC too.

                              In designer you will see the same picture as your droid.

                              I don't play much with android (just one in wall touch screen). It should work.

                              Axis RTSP now is a bit different if that is what you are using. There you probably need to find out if you can do jpg snaphots.

                              My HSTouch links too are all the same as they come from one server. Each IP camera though has different configurations in the server set up. Homeseer HSTouch gets them from the server rather than the camera.

                              Not sure if this helped much.
                              - Pete

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