Get them while the gettin is good.

[JeffCharger]

There's another thread with a similar "thread" of thought..... http://forums.homeseer.com/showthrea...=101012&page=2

[macromark]

Let me start by saying this was not an arbitrary decision and we have no desire to hurt the community of users who have helped us get where we are. We appreciate your support and hope to continue working with you all for years to come.

On this matter, though, we met. We discussed it. We made a business decision that with the associated administrative work, fees and commission rates, $29.95 was the lowest price we wanted to sell plug-ins and scripts at. It's really that simple.

Some have complained that this represents 'double' the cost on some of the plug-ins. That is true. However, to put it into perspective, consider this: We currently offer 23 third-party plug-ins and scripts on homeseer.com. At 2004 prices, the median price (based on all 23) was already over $27! Even if you throw out the highest cost plug-in (RadioRA at $99) and the lowest ($14.95), the median on the remaining 21 was still $24.25. So, the new $29.95 baseline is just $5.70 more. That's lunch money (well, in NH anyway)!

Operating costs at HomeSeer (like every other business) continue to rise and we are always looking for ways to keep these costs in check while keeping our customers happy and increasing revenues (growing the business). It's a balancing act that's often very difficult to perform (especially with limited resources) but it's one we must perform well to keep our company healthy and moving forward. At times, this may result in a price increase.

2005 should be a very exciting year for HomeSeer. We'll be launching the v2.0 beta release very soon (right Rich?!) and following that with the PRO-100 controller. It's too soon to *officially* talk about the other future projects under consideration now but... stay tuned!

Happy New Year!

-Mark

Mark Colegrove
HomeSeer Technologies

[Mark S.]

Mark-

Thanks for the explanation. I can't pretend that I understand the costs of selling the plugins, so I can only take your word for it that you need to recover some expenses.

My concern/objection is that these are third party plugins, not HST property. For the most part, they were created by users for other users - their distribution is a service to the user community. This price increase might have the apparently unintended consequence of discouraging the creation and/or use of low-end plugins - plugins that scripting-challenged users like me depend on.

For example the AB8SS plugin is a very useful, but simple plugin. As a matter of fact, it is simple enough that I don't think many would pay $30 for it. So unless the author could give it away or was allowed sell it himself for less, it will probably not be fully utilized. That would do a dis-service to the author and the HS user community.

I guess time will tell if there will be a positive or negative (or no) effect on user development and sharing of plugins and scripts. I'd like to see if HST or our user community have some ideas to help ensure that the development and sharing of plugins/scripts (high-end and low-end) is encouraged as much as possible.

Mark

[Rupp]

Mark,
As far as I know there is nothing preventing users from selling plugins for HS from there own site. The HA Wizard has been sold like this for years. It just will not be included in the updater but many plugins aren't there now. Heck some of the guys could pocket more money and not have to raise prices at all.

[pbibm]

Rupp, had you any idea what you were getting us into when you started this simple post???

One way to look at this topic that the HA market is becoming more grown up, and maybe is ready for some changes. Homeseer is providing the valuable tool that we need to integrate our home systems. Its important that they be viable as a business to be around to continue to support us and provide us the technical direction. For example, a lot of resource has to be thrown at 2.0 and the .net architecture. Up-to-date product development is an expensive proposition.

You can't tell people how they should feel about the plugins cost issue. I think a line is being drawn, those pulled to the $30 and up side, and those to the free side. I certainly appreciate that both are available, and that the community here is that strong to support all of us no matter what we choose. Our choices have changed a little, but we still have them.

Lets start the new year counting our blessings on Homeseer, move along, and see what happens.

Paul

[johnwpb]

The best analogy I can come up with to try to make sence of this is as follows.

Adobe Photoshop retails for around $800.00
Paint shop Pro goes for around $60.00

So with the new "median" price, Paint Shop Pro will now go for $405.70. Please understand, this is not based at all on the features of the program, power, technical support, (Or lack there of). or the authors suggested retail price. This is just a price somewhere down the middle. Enjoy!

Thats what it really boils down to. Many of the plugins are very complex and are properly set at $30. On the othe hand, many are very basic and offer a smaller amount of features, and should be priced accordingly.

If this were a retail stores business plan, it would now cost you the same thing for either a disposable bic lighter, or a gold palted zippo lighter. (Of course I wouldnt shop at that store anyways, as the cheapest thing in the store is $29.95) This all just dosent make sence to me, sorry.

[JeffCharger]

I am hoping that this position takes us back to the "sharing" environment where we shared scripts that did almost anything you asked for. A false hope? ....

[Tom Kern]

Not a false hope...unless the price floor changes the mind of those developing the scripts/plugins, then it will be up to the individual to decide if he/she really needs money for their time and effort.

I have to add I'd be lying if I said I didn't wonder how much money can really be generated by plugin sales and considered it offsetting some of the cost of my system, and I'm all for sharing.

[Rauco]

As one of those with plug-ins for sale I have to admit I don't completely understand the pricing. I have faith is HS though and will wait and see where this goes.

John's lighter analogy is good, but he missed one point. The Bic lighter would sell for $29.95 and the Zippo would be $149.95, comparatively. I'd stick with Wal-Mart.

I've raised the price of the Outlook Interface to the minimum, which is a $5 increase. Ok, we'll chalk that up to inflation. I put quite a bit of work into it and I think it's worth that price.

My other two plug-ins, the Randomizer and the Wavalizer, are useful but not at $30 a pop. I have contacted Rick and asked about packaging them both together for that price. Hopefully we can work that out as neither will sell at the minimum and I wouldn't feel right selling at $29.95 each. I know they're not worth that individually.

Since selling it is up in the air right now, and for some reason the Wavalizer's not even listed on the 3rd party page, drop me a private message with your e-mail and I'll send you a free license key for the Wavalizer. I'll do this for any messages I get through January 6. Just trying to get some good plug-in vibes going on the boards.

[Gogs]

Mark,

Thank you your reply as to the pricing policy,

I understand where you are comming from and the costs involved.

Are you actually saying that if am someone writes a plugin and wishes HS to support there plugin by having it on the updater and also accepting payment through HS to be passed on then they should write one that justifies the cost of 30$

Many people write very good plugins, very simple, but save allus non script/ plugin writers a lot of hassle in trying to get something to work. And they would never think of charging 30$

By what you are doing you eliminate the person that only wishes ten bucks for his achievment, I know it is crazy to process a transaction for only ten bucks, but then we loose his idea.

I suggest, very strongly, you may like to re-think this one. I don't think it is going to go away.

A suggestion:

Create a forum for plugins, free to download and install. That way people could offer there work and we can enjoy and develope it with them. Once there work achieves a certain standard then they can swith to your "Buy here shop".

If you do not do something, we, The HomeSeer Comunity, will become nothing more than a High Street Store, Then the comunity and the platform will have gone. Forever.

Don't forget, we all own a copy of HS, HSP, HSM and so on. If we do not upgrade they still work and always will. If nobody upgrades to V2 will you?

Anyway Mark have a good new year. That was one hell of a New Year present

[rjh]

You guys need to think about this just a little. There are hours of work put into this message board, the servers, the updater, I could go on. This thing does not run by itself. There was weeks of work put into just finding a better message board. Why? We really want the HomeSeer experience to be the best it can be. Many, if not all of the plug-in writers have contributed to this forum with free tips, scripts, and even plug-ins. The prices are set to cover all the costs involved. When you buy a plugin, you are really contributing to the support of this board and community. Maybe we should give away all the plugins and charge a subscription fee to just be on this board? Thats what a lot of companies do. Or maybe charge for a support service and forget about the free support that everyone gets? Even if you purchased all the plugins, your total cost is still less than other HA systems. I can tell you without a doubt, that if all the authors gave away their plugins, their would far less of them, and the quality would not be good. When you look at a plugin, you need to ask (does it solve my problem?), if it does, then the cost is meaningless. For some reason, people put strange values on software.

How about if we specified that X% of the plugin price goes to supporting the community? Would you still feel the same way? I hope you understand my view of this, and understand where this money goes. We really do want to be around far into the future, and provide the best products possible!

[Rupp]

Rich,
I can see why you are understandably upset at the over all tone of this thread and others like it. I also understand that you guys (HST) do not owe us an explanation of your business decisions or practices, but in our (collective group) defense, if you guys had stepped in early in the beginning of these threads and given a bit of explanation I believe we are all mature enough (hopefully) that we would have understood. No one likes prices hikes in any aspect of life and when it comes to something we all so dearly like and enjoy it hurts even more. We do want you guys to thrive and change hurts but it also is almost always good in the long run. Sorry for throwing fuel on the fire.

[jwilson56]

Rich I can see your side but I think you have forgotten one important issue concerning the HS community. Can you possibly imagine the total man hours spent by users helping users on this board (Rupp's support alone)? All that time NOT spent by you or your assistants holding newbies hands or solving someone's script problems. I personally owe a great deal to those on this board for their assistance. This kind of support goes hand in hand with the type of software product you are selling. After all I think its safe to say that Homeseer is not an 'out of the box' application.

Also think about how many sales have come from word of mouth... or one of us convincing someone on another message board to take a look at Homeseer. Personally I have never seen a single advertisement for Homeseer. I am sure they are out there but I would be willing to bet many of the sales came from referrals by some of us.

We owe you plenty for working hard on a great software package but I think you owe many members on this board gratitude for all the 'free' support they have gratiously given over the years.

You have a right to do what you want with your company. I however think that in the end it will spell doom for the simple 'pay for' plugins that added functions some people need. The loss in revenue from loss of sales will offset the revenue from increased sales.

I will say no more...

John

[JustOneMore]

Well said JW

[goddard99]

Active Home

There are two points I would like to throw into the mix.
Active Home Pro ripped all there customers off by firstly advertising the "free plugin" that would just allow conditional plugins, they now charge $50 for it and it still does not work.
Second point, if you amortize the cost of a plugin over a year its about .50 cents a week. Most of us only buy a couple of plugins and quite frankly I drink more than the cost of the plugin a week.
I am a newbie who has tried all the other software programs and this is by far the best and the best supported. As a non script writer I applaud the writers who take their time to produce an interface that helps people like me.
$30 is cheap, not for the intial product, but for the support. Remember they respond to people like me who need the simplest of help. Think about it guy's, we all owe Rupp $30 for his contribution alone. He responds quicker than I can post. I don't like increases but $30 ain't a lot of money in the grand scheme of things.
Happy New Year to you all