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Z-Wave dimmers and LED lamps - what works?

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    Z-Wave dimmers and LED lamps - what works?

    Since the pool of available Z-wave controllable dimmers is limited, and the challenges with finding compatibility between LED bulbs and Dimmers seems unlimited, I thought we'd see what has worked and what has not.

    I just purchased a set of three BR30 Philips bulbs

    #2
    Well, since the vBulletin 'search' feature returns 0 results when searching this forum for "LED" it's easy to miss any and all discussion of the topic.

    Using google search on the site does return more helpful links, so here are a few I found of value:

    This one explains the issues with the various classes of dimmers, and owners share experiences with actual z-wave/LED combos.
    Bottom line: three-wire dimmers seem to perform, and even moreso if of the right class (MLV vs. ELV):
    http://forums.homeseer.com/showthread.php?p=957512

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by JonFo View Post
      Well, since the vBulletin 'search' feature returns 0 results when searching this forum for "LED" it's easy to miss any and all discussion of the topic.

      Using google search on the site does return more helpful links, so here are a few I found of value:

      This one explains the issues with the various classes of dimmers, and owners share experiences with actual z-wave/LED combos.
      Bottom line: three-wire dimmers seem to perform, and even moreso if of the right class (MLV vs. ELV):
      http://forums.homeseer.com/showthread.php?p=957512
      I'm not gonna pay $100 each to replace dimmers. Guess I need to stock up on bulbs or try some halogens. I just bought 2 new 2-wire cooper dimmers and they flicker with regular bulbs and don't turn off completely. Guess I'll be returning them
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        #4
        Originally posted by mark_anderson_us View Post
        I'm not gonna pay $100 each to replace dimmers. Guess I need to stock up on bulbs or try some halogens. I just bought 2 new 2-wire cooper dimmers and they flicker with regular bulbs and don't turn off completely. Guess I'll be returning them
        First, those 2-wire dimmers are pretty useless on less than 200W incandescent loads, and those loads better have big, heavy filaments, or they will buzz.

        As I just found out, LED's will NOT work on the 2-wire RF9534.

        The three-wire RF9534N does work for both LED and incan lights.

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          #5
          OK, did some testing this am (nice to have 'spares' around for testing and backup).

          As I just mentioned above, 2-wire dimmers are non-starters for low-wattage LED fixtures, simply not enough draw to stabilize the circuit.
          So I pulled the Cooper RF9534 2-wire switch and swapped in the following:

          I wanted to see what an ELV (C-type dimmer, trailing edge) dimmer would do, so in went an RF9537N (neutral required).
          This worked fine with the bank of three Philips BR30 lamps, dimming was smooth and no flickering, max brightness seemed good.

          However, from reading the Philips BR30 product page it mentions it's designed to be "Dimmable when using leading edge dimmers", and the Cooper (non-RF) 9534N is a listed dimmer.

          So in goes the RL-type (leading edge) RF9534N three-wire dimmer. This one also works perfectly, with smooth dimming, and what seems even brighter max output than when on the ELV dimmer.

          So my conclusion is that the newer Philips and the three-wire RL-type (incan/MLV) zwave dimmer from Cooper are a good match (at least in multiple unit configs, have not tried a single bulb setup).

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by JonFo View Post
            First, those 2-wire dimmers are pretty useless on less than 200W incandescent loads, and those loads better have big, heavy filaments, or they will buzz.

            As I just found out, LED's will NOT work on the 2-wire RF9534.

            The three-wire RF9534N does work for both LED and incan lights.
            I have several working on 60w/75w loads. No buzzing at all. The Cooper documentation says min load is 40w
            ________________________

            Dell Zino HD - HSPRo 2.x
            HSTouch - iPhone 3GS, 4S, iPad2 and iPad 3, 3xKindle Fire (Wall mounted)
            2 x Brultech ECM1240 with UltraECM
            USB UIRT
            Cooper Aspire Z-Wave Switches
            WGL800 w ACRF2 and 3xDS10a (Sump Level/Activity sensing)
            HM ST812-2 Flood Sensor
            HSM100 - Motion Detector with Light and Temperature
            2GIG Thermostat
            BLDSC - Alarm Plug-in
            BLUPS
            UltraLog (SQL2008)
            Jon00 Plugins
            Host XR3 BT and Jon00 BT Proximity
            Global Cache IP2IR
            Foscam FI8918W

            Comment


              #7
              Glad you found my earlier post, and thanks for adding to our collective knowledge with what you found so far.

              I predict that as time goes on, the LED manufacturers will use LED driver circuits that are more compatible with the cheaper magnetic low voltage dimmers. I also believe that they will continue to work the best though with dimmers having a neutral (if talking about automated dimmers that need power to run the radio).

              If in doubt, use the electronic low voltage dimmers, but yes they are usually more expensive. I have used mostly magnetic low voltage dimmers, but for a few of my LEDs, with only a single bulb on a circuit, I have needed to use the electronic low voltage dimmers (Cree bulbs).

              Comment


                #8
                Automated, thanks for the good write up in that linked-to thread.

                I agree, the retrofit market sure needs to recognize that existing dimmers are there to stay (at least for a decade or more), so the lamps need to either be widely compatible or very clearly marked as to what they will and will not work with.

                If I were doing new construction now, I'd ditch the 100+ year old model of switch-based load control and go to luminary-based power / dimming and make the switches be strictly about remote control (on/off/level/color) with no load role whatsoever.

                When the power and dimming are handled in the luminary, they can be engineered to optimize the performance (light output, energy usage, heat dissipation, etc.) for the specific usage. The challenge is the control standard. Right now, DALI looks like a nice widely adopted (thanks to EU std.) protocol that can be interfaced to from many different systems.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Resurrecting an old thread, my wife picked up a 3-pack of these: http://limagehomeproducts.com/en/sun...l-and-dimmable at Costco for C$15.29. I figured I would be returning them, but with Costco's no questions asked return process, I thought I would try them first. Happy to report that they work very well with all my dimmers and switches including Leviton's VRI06-1LZ Z-Wave dimmer. This is the dimmer that does not require a neutral. No flickering and no noise throughout the entire range with just a single bulb. Bulb is also rated for -40C to +45C so will be using them in our outside fixtures as well. Off to Costco, not to return them, but to buy more :-)

                  Cheers
                  Al
                  HS 4.2.8.0: 2134 Devices 1252 Events
                  Z-Wave 3.0.10.0: 133 Nodes on one Z-Net

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hot?

                    Do they get hot?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by emeyer View Post
                      Do they get hot?
                      No, they get warm, but can still be touched.

                      Cheers
                      Al
                      HS 4.2.8.0: 2134 Devices 1252 Events
                      Z-Wave 3.0.10.0: 133 Nodes on one Z-Net

                      Comment

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